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Two Blackpool trams owned by the Lancastrian Transport Trust. Above OMO 8 which was still being worked on and was able to run in Wednesday's procession driven by workshop staff. Below Standard 143 which was a static exhibit. |
Above - TMS cars Oporto 273 and Blackpool 167 both of which had developed faults and were not able to run in service in Blackpool.
Below TMS owned 'Rack' 2 which participated in Wednesday's procession.
Below TMS owned 'Rack' 2 which participated in Wednesday's procession.General depot view including Blackpool residents Sheffield 510 and Stockport 5.
For your information, 273 had not developed a fault but was stopped to assess why the derailment occured.
ReplyDelete196 is a far better tram at least it works
ReplyDelete273 'works'. As ever, can the anonymous commenters please check their facts before posting. If you want to check them, I've published my email many times.
ReplyDeleteAnd people wonder why there are so few enthusiasts! GET A LIFE.
Oh, and because some people seem to think otherwise. These views are *my own* and are not those of any publications or websites that I may be involved with. These publications all strive (And if I say so myself, succeed) to remain neutral and not attack complete idiots who are so 'big' they choose to remain anonymous.
Again, 273 worked as well, which has been proven time and again at Crich both before and after its visit to Blackpool. I have seen it running only minutes before it got derailed and it behaved perfectly normal.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with it is, that it has reversed maximum traction trucks. They are more sensitive to track wear and track irregularities than normal maximum traction trucks.
And some of the track in Blackpool is far from normal! Unless you live in Kiev or some other former communist place with completely worn out infrastructure. Given its social background, yes Blackpool does fit in there.
Apparently nobody in Blackpool wanted to do some investigation into why this derailment occurred. In many cases the cure is simple. And how many Blackpool trams get derailed every year? Don't tell me nil, because I don't believe that.
i find it strange that 273 derailed on new track? but 196 has stayed on track at beamish and heaton park on old
ReplyDeletewhen bolton 66 was being sent to blackpool in the 80s members of the tms were not happy about the wheel alighnment and tried to stop the move but hey ho it works on new and old track so why not ask the question "how did they do it"oh im sorry its not a tms tram
ReplyDeleteWhilst I'm not normally one to defend the TMS, a few facts need to be adressed here...
ReplyDeleteFirstly, 196 is a 4-wheeler whereas 273 has reversed maximum traction bogies so there's no comparisan whatsoever. Also, as I understand the wheel arrangements on Bolton 66 & Oporto 273 are different, its quite unfair to compare those two. For the record, on 273 the small wheel leads whereas on 66 it is behind a larger wheel which means it is less prone to derail.
Incidentally Manchester 765 has the same maximum traction bogies as car 66 and it too has been fine at Blackpool.
Blackpool as infra provider is primarily responsible for supplying the specifications for the wheel/rail interface. 273 ran perfectly well several times as I witnessed myself, but somehow got derailed at Pleasure Beach.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, apparently nobody in Blackpool wanted sorting out this probably minor problem. I wish Stuart Pillar was still in charge. He would have got that tram out again within days. But then again, he was an old fashioned engineer who new his trade inside out. Like he sorted out Bolton 66.
for starters with regard to compairing 273 and 196, why don't you look what the run on. 273 on bogies and 196 on a truck so they are going to act different. there are too many anonymous people slaiting the tms for trying to keep thier old cars going and it does need to stop. the tms cars went to blackpool with very little work needing doing when they got there but 762,765,omo8 and 143 all needed a lot of work doing to them even before they were allowed to run on the main line. so why not look at the other groups and comment about thier cars.
ReplyDeleteI should remind Wim that in the U.K.K today all derailments etc. must be reported to the Rail Accident Investigation Board and are then to be found on their website so we can all see how many Blackpool cars have derailed. Secondly if anyone had looked at the marks of 273's derailment as I and sveral others looked for a few days later you would have noticed that the actual gauge measurements were marked at close intervals throughout this area. So the most cursory investigation would have revealed that the track and the cars profiles were incompatible, which was probably one purpose of the test running. As it would have been impossible and completely disruptive to relay the track at this critical point and new wheels for 273 were equally inconceiveable it is hard to see what else could be done other than the withdrawal of the car from operation. Probably the only question should be as to why the car was selected as this outcome could surely have been "risk assessed" as "very likely". We should at least thank everyone for trying even if believing it was wishful thinking.
ReplyDeleteKeep on dreaming. In Holland such accidents should be reported to the railway inspectorate, but they don't always do it! That's my experience as inspector.
ReplyDeleteIt works like that with trams, metros and trains. Not often, but it happens. There will always be people who try to cover up mistakes. Especially a minor derailment with a tram on paved track is easy to 'repair' and 'forget'.
I am sure 273 was send to Blackpool on the assumption that it was compatible with their track. As it was, given the way it behaved until the derailment at Pleasure Beach.
Apparently there is something peculiar with that track, causing 273 to derail. It could be gauge, it could be worping, but something out there is not what it should be.
I have seen the same in Holland in Utrecht when they introduced the Vienna trams. It took them three weeks before they managed a single run over the system without derailments. The existing fleet had no problems, being very much insensitive to the track (all credits to the Swiss who designed and build these trams).
The Vienna cars fulfilled the interface specs, yet they derailed an incredible amount of times, making all of us desperate. But we found the problems with the interface and corrected them. Even in 2010 trial and error is sometimes required to remedy problems.
I'm sorry but what do you mean by 765 needing a lot of work doing before it could run.
ReplyDeleteAs for a likely cause for the derailment of 273 at Pleasure Beach please refer to http://www.iphpbb.com/board/ftopic-18483519nx108523-87.html, my entry on 6/10/2010 and David Holt's entry on 16/10/2010.
ReplyDeleteIn addition I would very much appreciate if someone local to Blackpool could take a photo of the point at Pleasure Beach where the two loop tracks join. The joint with the loop tracks is important. That will explain things.
On a completely different matter, Google seems to mess up the "recent comments" column. At present I only get older comments there, so I do not always keep up with current developments. Ceterum censeo ... (my usual bit about using the forum rather than this comments section).
Regards
Christoph
oh sorry the lot of work you wanted to know about was a little paint work and a fuse box fitted not bad for an outfit with a self funding and hard workng men and women but you know that any way
ReplyDeleteIs this still going on? Yawn...
ReplyDelete